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That Wife Learns to Code
October 14, 2015
5:13 am
avatar
Frida Cathlo
Hamcat
Meows: 152
Snarking Since:
April 13, 2014

I find this bootcamp concept really intriguing in some ways. Of course they're interested in pushing students through to make more money, but on the other hand that could compromise their own reputation if they let someone like Jenna advance through the end regardless of her flippant, DGAF attitude in her reflections. That will reflect poorly on the program once she finds someone willing to employ her. Does someone actually read her responses and take note? I have never seen such unprofessional behavior, ESPECIALLY by someone who *paid* (ok, not really her, but YKWIM) a shitload of money to be there.

It's clear that some people are advised to repeat or leave the program so obviously they do monitor people's work/progress, but what is the magic threshold? I mean, can it really get worse than Jenna?? I find that hard to believe.

Secondly, as unfair as it may be, I truly believe if she makes it till the end somehow she WILL find a job. I don't think it will be anywhere near as glamorous as she imagines and she will be in for a rude awakening. Can some more experienced hams shed some light on what sort of entry level job she could land at best?

confusedconfusedconfused

October 14, 2015
9:18 am
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Ambitious is my middle name
Hamcat
Meows: 149
Snarking Since:
June 17, 2015

Frida Cathlo meowed 
Secondly, as unfair as it may be, I truly believe if she makes it till the end somehow she WILL find a job. I don't think it will be anywhere near as glamorous as she imagines and she will be in for a rude awakening. Can some more experienced hams shed some light on what sort of entry level job she could land at best?

confusedconfusedconfused

I'm not sure on what entry level job she could land, but I will tell you what I know about the coding world.  

I double majored (in four years, not 7-8 like it took her for one degree).  I wanted to be a coder.  One of my majors involved learning some coding languages and database design, but it was not a computer science major.  I went to work for an IT consulting firm (and still work there).  I did a year as a business analyst and then was able to get into the coding side.  I did that for a year and quickly realized I would advance must faster as a business analyst.  The people I was working with had far more knowledge then me.

For a developer in my company "coding" first starts off with a functional design, done by a business analyst like myself.  Then the developer writes a technical design.  That might have some code in it, but in mostly does not.  Then they start coding and unit testing.  Then it gets handed back to me where I test the cr*p out of it and log defects.  They need to fix the defects while also working on other assignments and keeping to deadlines.  

I have been lucky to be able to work from home since having kids and part time (such a hostile work environment for me, being female and as a woman).  But the reality is I often work more than part time to meet deadlines.  Just last week my huscat and I had to "cancel" Thanksgiving and our Veterans day holiday as we need to work to meet deadlines.  Huscat is a dev manager at the firm I work in…he works six days  week and mostly 13 hour days five days a week.  I will remind you again that I am in a consulting firm and as such we are meeting client deadlines, so these working hours may not be typical.

Her resume would never make it to an interview with my firm.  If we were to interview anyone without a degree in Computer Science/Engineering/similar then that person better have a pretty extensive resume showing why they would be good.  Being the creator of Pinterest Fail is nothing big.  And you don't have to have something paying to put it on your resume.  Show your interest in the coding side by working with underprivileged kids to teach them code or something like that.  Show your interest in IT by creating stuff for your school's PTA.  Just this past fall I created a membership database and online form. It's nothing extensive, but still, it's something.   

If she's trying to market herself as a website developer, then show me some extensive website's you've done, not just websites that look like something a seventh grader taking a computer class put together.  She should be spending this time between now and her job search trying to beef up her resume, but that's going to be impossible because she'll have the on site portion of her class starting.  I'm assuming she'll mention on her resume the number of page hits her blog gets, but then I imagine anyone interviewing her will take a look at her blog and maybe figure out her blog hits are based on people amazed at her stupidity.

October 14, 2015
9:38 am
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Jennie Bobowicz At Work
Feline Porklord
Meows: 2736
Snarking Since:
February 13, 2013

Twizzle meowed
As delightful as snarking on her ladycoding is all around, I'd like to make a point here since many of you keep bringing up her googling: there is nothing wrong with googling things when you're learning, well, anything, really (five minutes ago, I googled how to unclog a Dyson, saved myself a hundred bucks). It's an excellent way to learn. It actually drives me nuts when people come to me with a question they haven't bothered googling, even though the answer's right there, because "well I just figured I'd ask you [for the 2934729374th time]". I'm not a professional ladycoder, but I have a solid background in front-end dev and I've taken classes on Ruby/Rails and Python for data science – I googled the shit out of everything I didn't understand, and it was very helpful to see how other people had solved similar problems, especially since on sites like Stackoverflow, commenters usually explain how they arrived at a solution, or why one thing works but another doesn't. That part she's doing right. Everything else is a hot mess, though.

Sure, if you don't know how to do X, you can google how to do X. However, Jenna made some mention of it taking her a long time to search because she didn't know the right keywords to use, meaning Jenna can't even figure out X is what she's supposed to be googling for and/or the challenge is WXYZ and she's searching for a WXYZ solution instead of figuring out or searching for the individual components and putting them together herself. And now she's leaning on her BIL too, she's not being self-sufficient in the least.

October 14, 2015
9:59 am
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Lindsay Weir
Hamprince of Meowtonia
Meows: 6364
Snarking Since:
December 5, 2011

Any Dev bootcamp will tell you to google answers once you get stuck enough that you can't figure it out (plus, knowing all Ruby commands and processes in the few weeks that a bootcamp lasts for isn't exactly what the bootcamp is going for). Her responses, though, are yes, unprofessional. 

 

Let's be clear that not all coders go on to write big technical programs for bigwig companies. Sure, she may not get past the interview stage at Not Refactoring's workplace, but not every coder goes on to huge things. I work at a small company where I sit and code all day, for a product that thousands of people use, but I'm not writing groundbreaking code. I just write code that makes an already existing app more functional and easier to use. That's it. What I do adds features to the site (to make our clients happy), and add more functionality to the back-end of the site (which makes our operations people happy). I really enjoy my job, but again, I don't have a computer science degree, I went to a developer bootcamp, I get along just fine. There is a huge middle ground of companies who just want someone to do work – not be a computer genius or solve tech's biggest problems – they just need someone to crank out functional code. 

 

Whether Jenna can do that or not, I dunno. She seems to hate Javascript, so while I thought she'd be better at being a front-end dev, now I'm not so sure. 

Of course, we all know that Jenna's work ethic is what is really lacking. She will NOT be able to sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, like I do. When she envisions herself at a tech job, she sees herself as a senior – flitting from meeting to meeting to lunch – those people can code quickly and efficiently, and solve problems on the fly. In reality, she'll be a junior, and stuck at a desk all day because NO ONE cares what she thinks about things – because she doesn't know. Her main task will be to crank out code, and she won't be able to deal, I don't think. The reality is much different than she is picturing.

October 14, 2015
10:24 am
avatar
Holloway Harris
Senior Hamcat
Meows: 863
Snarking Since:
June 4, 2012

Lindsay Weir meowed

Any Dev bootcamp will tell you to google answers once you get stuck enough that you can't figure it out (plus, knowing all Ruby commands and processes in the few weeks that a bootcamp lasts for isn't exactly what the bootcamp is going for). Her responses, though, are yes, unprofessional. 

 

Let's be clear that not all coders go on to write big technical programs for bigwig companies. Sure, she may not get past the interview stage at Not Refactoring's workplace, but not every coder goes on to huge things. I work at a small company where I sit and code all day, for a product that thousands of people use, but I'm not writing groundbreaking code. I just write code that makes an already existing app more functional and easier to use. That's it. What I do adds features to the site (to make our clients happy), and add more functionality to the back-end of the site (which makes our operations people happy). I really enjoy my job, but again, I don't have a computer science degree, I went to a developer bootcamp, I get along just fine. There is a huge middle ground of companies who just want someone to do work – not be a computer genius or solve tech's biggest problems – they just need someone to crank out functional code. 

 

Whether Jenna can do that or not, I dunno. She seems to hate Javascript, so while I thought she'd be better at being a front-end dev, now I'm not so sure. 

Of course, we all know that Jenna's work ethic is what is really lacking. She will NOT be able to sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, like I do. When she envisions herself at a tech job, she sees herself as a senior – flitting from meeting to meeting to lunch – those people can code quickly and efficiently, and solve problems on the fly. In reality, she'll be a junior, and stuck at a desk all day because NO ONE cares what she thinks about things – because she doesn't know. Her main task will be to crank out code, and she won't be able to deal, I don't think. The reality is much different than she is picturing.

"The reality is much different than she is picturing." <– You just summed up every phase of life for That Wife. With no sign of ever abating.

October 14, 2015
10:37 am
avatar
Lindsay Weir
Hamprince of Meowtonia
Meows: 6364
Snarking Since:
December 5, 2011

^^^^ hahaha. True. Marriage, kids, being a photographer, I'm sure all of it. Admittedly, my job is MUCH different than I pictured it, but I do have the wherewithal to be okay with that. I went into programming knowing nothing, but I knew I knew nothing. Luckily, it has worked out for me, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. I don't think that will be true for Jenna. She MAY get a job as a junior, but probably as an intern, make $15/hr, and won't be able to stick it out bc she won't be able to see its ALL a learning experience and she has to put in her time. I make so much less than she is imagining making, but I've been at my job a year, will get a raise soon, and the amount of stuff I've learned in the last year on the job is priceless. She doesn't have the ability to see that.

October 14, 2015
11:14 am
avatar
Ambitious is my middle name
Hamcat
Meows: 149
Snarking Since:
June 17, 2015

Lindsay Weir meowed 
Of course, we all know that Jenna's work ethic is what is really lacking. She will NOT be able to sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, like I do. When she envisions herself at a tech job, she sees herself as a senior – flitting from meeting to meeting to lunch – those people can code quickly and efficiently, and solve problems on the fly. In reality, she'll be a junior, and stuck at a desk all day because NO ONE cares what she thinks about things – because she doesn't know. Her main task will be to crank out code, and she won't be able to deal, I don't think. The reality is much different than she is picturing.

bandwagon  

The work ethic is what she is lacking.  My hamcat (the one who works all the time) grabs lunch from the deli on the first floor.  He does go from meeting-to-meeting and he hates it because that is time he could be spending working.  I hate meetings too but I don't have nearly as many as he does.  I also usually just make myself lunch at home.  

The stuff she's been doing in her bootcamp is no where near as extensive as what she will really have to code, I'm guessing.  I'm currently working on a functional design that is 200+ pages that a developer will have to code.  In a month.  I can't imagine her getting one page coded in a day.

I think she also sees herself as making new friends with her fellow coders.  A lot of that will depend on the corporate atmosphere.  I'm pretty friendly with the developers but they don't have time to go out for lunches because they are working.  Or have meetings.  And then they want to get home to see their kids.

October 14, 2015
12:22 pm
avatar
October
Hamcat
Meows: 132
Snarking Since:
September 8, 2013

github…

Did you solve the problem in a new way?

TW – my BIL did it

lollollol

October 14, 2015
12:26 pm
avatar
Aggressively Stupid Ladycoder
Expert Hamcat
Meows: 295
Snarking Since:
October 18, 2014

October meowed
github…

Did you solve the problem in a new way?

TW – my BIL did it

lollollol

LMAO lmao.  Great way to answer your homework follow up question by just basically admitting someone else did it.  And of course she sees nothing wrong with this.  Only Jenna.

October 14, 2015
2:15 pm
avatar
Lindsay Weir
Hamprince of Meowtonia
Meows: 6364
Snarking Since:
December 5, 2011

Not Refactoring meowed

Lindsay Weir meowed 
Of course, we all know that Jenna's work ethic is what is really lacking. She will NOT be able to sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, like I do. When she envisions herself at a tech job, she sees herself as a senior – flitting from meeting to meeting to lunch – those people can code quickly and efficiently, and solve problems on the fly. In reality, she'll be a junior, and stuck at a desk all day because NO ONE cares what she thinks about things – because she doesn't know. Her main task will be to crank out code, and she won't be able to deal, I don't think. The reality is much different than she is picturing.

bandwagon  

The work ethic is what she is lacking.  My hamcat (the one who works all the time) grabs lunch from the deli on the first floor.  He does go from meeting-to-meeting and he hates it because that is time he could be spending working.  I hate meetings too but I don't have nearly as many as he does.  I also usually just make myself lunch at home.  

The stuff she's been doing in her bootcamp is no where near as extensive as what she will really have to code, I'm guessing.  I'm currently working on a functional design that is 200+ pages that a developer will have to code.  In a month.  I can't imagine her getting one page coded in a day.

I think she also sees herself as making new friends with her fellow coders.  A lot of that will depend on the corporate atmosphere.  I'm pretty friendly with the developers but they don't have time to go out for lunches because they are working.  Or have meetings.  And then they want to get home to see their kids.

Right. She really has no idea. I know this, bc I, myself, had no idea. Free tutorials online are quick and mostly easy and rudimentary, and I just had NO concept of what programming really entailed even when I was was beginning boot camp. That's fine, I think. I had no exposure, and even if someone had showed me what real, big code looked like I would've thought "well I'm going to learn that". You can't understand how vast it is until you're in there. Been on the job a year now and I'm still just barely scraping the service.

And I canNOT believe she wrote that on her homework. They need to either kick her out, or if they let her continue that needs to stay public so employers can see it. Does dev bootcamp do internships?

October 14, 2015
5:13 pm
avatar
what the fuckever

Where's the thread that keeps tally of the guesses when the following announcement will be made?

"My most favorite person in the world and I sat, as a married couple, on the couch and discussed my career. We tried leaning in and various outsourcing solutions and came to the pragmatic decision that it would be best for us as a family and me as a feminist, to concentrate my energy on photography. I will have my own space in a creative building in San Francisco (I will bike into the city) where I can meet with clients and work on my photos without being bugged by T1 and T2. I will not miss my trampeeline because I have been gifted a small trampeeline for my new studio space by my elderly landlord. In 2017 I will be taking a book tour around the world because people in the Almfi Coast have never seen a camera, #wherearethechildrenWorldBookTour2017 . My book will be called "The Best of Jenna Cole Photography" and I suggest you pre-order from Amazon because it will be on the NYT Best Seller List. Being a Creative Lady will allow me to be free from the evil patriarchy that threatens the very existence of women world wide."

October 14, 2015
5:43 pm
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#modifiedWhole30
MEOWGOD
Meows: 13477
Snarking Since:
March 4, 2013

Monroe House for Jesus & Photography meowed
"I didn't pay much attention" lol

Why does she say these things? Does she think it's funny? Cute? She sounds so so so so clueless all the time! Both intellectually, and professionally.

Because she thinks that being honest and cutting through the bullshit forgives her being an ass.

October 14, 2015
6:52 pm
avatar
Purple21
Feline Porklord
Meows: 4060
Snarking Since:
July 28, 2014

Aggressively Stupid Ladycoder meowed

October meowed
github…

Did you solve the problem in a new way?

TW – my BIL did it

lollollol

LMAO lmao.  Great way to answer your homework follow up question by just basically admitting someone else did it.  And of course she sees nothing wrong with this.  Only Jenna.

Here's some positive spin for her CV: "I have excellent delegation skills and I am extremely confident in front of a camera.  I'm am not afraid to admit when something is beyond my understanding." 

My career suggestion for TW would be weather girl: she could stand in front of that chart, pretending she knows what all the squiggly lines mean, and talk straight into the camera about the storm clouds approaching from the north. She might even be able to throw in a few personal details to make herself more interesting to fans.  "Yay! Sunny this weekend – I'll be able to wear my white lace dress to my party on Saturday" or "Oh dear, it looks like it's going to be windy. Maybe I don't want to go dancing naked on the beach after all.



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