Mommy Blogging

CecilyK Has No Problem With Her Daughter Being Sexy

Cecily Kellogg, not a blogger but goes to blog conferences, is still ‘writing’. Since ‘leaving’ Babble, she has found a new venue where she can share her stories of exemplary parenting. She’s now over at Yahoo! Parenting talking about Halloween costumes for tweens.

Tweens are supposed to experiment with their sexuality. It’s normal.

She then dives into some long ramble about how, back in Shakespeare’s time, there were no tweens or teenagers. Unfortunately better nutrition and the fact that it’s no longer the 16th century have forced modern 9-18 year olds to ignore their body yearnings or something.

So basically, you’ve got sexually mature humans forced to live under a newly-constructed definition of “child” and behave accordingly. This conflicts with every signal they’re getting from their own bodies.

She goes on to qualify all of this by saying HER 9 year old “isn’t yet thinking about being sexy” but once she’s 10 or 11 that will change. And she’s cool with that.

In a year or two I might wince a bit if she decides to wear a “hoochie” short skirt as part of her costume and suggest she wears leggings to keep warm, but I’m not going to tell her she’s wrong for wanting to experiment with looking pretty and, yes, even sexy — because she’s just being being a normal kid.

I just…I don’t even know, guys.

  1. clitasaurus hex

    This is what p**ophiles (excuse me, the convicted p**ophile behind me at this Starbucks is correcting me) *ephebophiles*, argue.

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    • Amaryllis

      Will someone please tell the *ephebophiles* that IT'S NOT ANY f***ING BETTER THAN p**oPHILIA, STFU AND GO KILL YOURSELF? That'd be awesome, thanks.

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    • Mumspringa Glen

      What does 'ephebophiles' mean? I'm afraid to google...

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      • Crapplejuice

        p**ophilia is prepubescent, ephebophilia is teens. I've seen some disturbing justifications for it that basically boil down to "15 year olds look like adult women if you turn your head and squint real hard so it's totally normal and natural for grown men to lust after them." Sometimes combined with "women hit their reproductive peak in their teens!" which is just... blegh

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        • tulips grow wherever the fuck you plant them dumbasss

          Yeesh. I just want to crawl into a hole and die. What is wrong with people?!?!

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        • LaverneandHurling

          Ah, the old "if there's grass on the field, play ball' defense. Nice to know there's an official term for these vile creatures. And to be clear: while these men like the idea that these are sexually mature beings, what they really like is their emotional immaturity because it means these girls are pliable and easy to manipulate and groom. None of that pesky agency or will of their own.

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          • Painted Crap

            I completely agree with everything that you said, except I would like to add that this is increasingly becoming a female adult/male minor type of thing! Here in the UK there have recently been a number of high profile cases of female teachers/TAs being convicted of sexual conduct with one of their pupils.

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            • strawberryandlime

              Ew. As an adult female (and I'm mid twenties) can I just interject with a big ol' HELL NOPE.

              I can't even comprehend why anyone of my age or older would even think of anyone under the age of 20 as a "Sexy", especially one you regularly saw in a school uniform.

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          • seshat

            I've heard it as "Old enough to bleed, old enough indeed". *vomits*

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            • Ewww (can't remember my original name sssf)

              I've also heard a slight change which is just as disgusting:
              "Old enough to bleed,
              ****old enough to breed***"
              *vomiting right along with you

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              • LaverneandHurling

                I've heard that one too! SO GROSS. I just want to dry heave forever. I got my period at age 12, but still very much had the body of a child (which makes sense because I WAS A CHILD) and it freaks me out to think some adult would think that's a green light. UGH.

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        • So ... their goal is to knock up a bunch of teenaged girls? Great.

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      • clitasaurus hex

        It's basically what despicable people (gross men) will say when they are trying to somehow justify sexually exploiting young girls. They literally make the exact same arguments as cesspool here.

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    • Vainglorious Poop Weasel

      Also... Still f***ing p**ophilia when it applies to a TEN YEAR OLD.

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      • Skinny Jeans for Jesus

        Exactly!!!! And what is wrong with this woman? Experimenting with your sexuality as a TEEN means making out and maybe maybe maybe some over the clothes groping. It does not mean your mom buys you a Playboy Bunny costume

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        • SadPandaShirt: Public Figure

          And Cecily isn't talking about teens, she's talking about TWEENS. 9,10,11 & 12 year olds. In that case experimentation is usually handled solo, under a blanket. Not by wearing a "hoochie" skirt to a holiday party with a come what may attitude.

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    • Amy**ophile-culture/

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      • Jan74

        Amazing article. Thanks for the link.

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      • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

        That article was brilliant, thanks for linking it.

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    • smauge

      Am I the only one wondering about this paedophile behind you in Starbucks, perhaps looking over your shoulder, eavesdropping on what you're typing? How did this happen?

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      • clitasaurus hex

        There was no p**ophile behind me. T'was a joke. Sorry to disappoint.

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        • smauge

          LOL! I was not having the bestest of days mentally when I asked that. :red face:

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    • InsecureSportsBraWoman

      omgg so i was lurking around kacie mcdonnell's instagram today because she posted some big thing about hater comments and i found this comment from a guy that said, "wish i was single i would date u" and the comment below said, "that means a lot coming from a p**ophile [referring to the above commenter]". i thought it was some kind of joke so i clicked through the guys account and it was a bunch of women crush wednesday 13 year olds!!! like these were all pictures pulled from middle schoolers' accounts and then he tagged them after reposting their pictures. it was the most disgusting thing ever. he had some pics of him with his 22 year old little brother, so i assumed he's mid 20s (probably older) but it was so disturbing.

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  2. gabi sanchez

    so...does this mean that if some 11-year-old boy tries to force himself on her daughter in a couple of years, she's ok with it because he also is just "exploring his sexuality"? What the hell?

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    • Too lazy to login from phone - yellow

      Brave New World.

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    • Kitty

      This already happened.

      Well, not Cec, obviously, but it happened to a friend of mine, let's call her I for this - she finally opened up to her mother about the sexual abuse that had made her shaky around boys for years, and her mother (who works in social service-things and has been foster mother repeatedly! One would think she had some sensitivity!) just shrugged and said "That's not abuse, that's sexual experimentation between peers".

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      • Beatrice Swan

        I'm not saying this didn't happen, but I know that my social worker partner visibly recoiled when I read him this.

        There are real assholes everywhere, and plenty of people who don't understand or appreciate the idea of consent at any age, but let's not go crazy with the slippery slope fallacy, especially when it comes to people who work in "social-service-type things."

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        • BabbityRabittyCacklingStump

          No one is making a slippery slope fallacy, someone is sharing their own experience. Based on my own personal experience, social workers are some of offenders when it comes to child abuse and neglect, and they all get super defensive when called on it (not because they care about children, but because their egos are butthurt).

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      • SadPandaShirt: Public Figure

        Ah yes, "sexual experimentation." The Josh Duggar Defense.

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  3. Vainglorious Poop Weasel

    Always go for that shock value, Cess. Appropriate attire is for squares and prudes. #youdoyou

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  4. FallenSisterWitch

    Aside from the overall ridiculousness of this, I love when parents of younger children dictate how older children will act. You have no idea, woman. Shut. It.

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    • The Daily Snark

      YES. THIS.

      I don't agree with her theory, but I'm not going to comment on that since there are many valid differing opinions md anecdotes related to appreciating our bodies and dressing appropriately.

      BUT...the whole idea that she will someday casually mention that her daughter MIGHT want to wear leggings under her hoochie skirt to "stay warm" AND her smugger-than-thou assumption that her future teen daughter will magically agree is ridiculous. Those smug assumptions make me laugh. Her daughter will find whatever button it is that makes this blogger wild and push it. Push it about a million times every day. It's just how teenagers work. And mom might be too interested in patting her own head to ever see it coming.

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      • Quality Control at the Bitch Factory

        Rebelling against Cess means speaking politely and appropriately, becoming disciplined in her education, and actively contributing to making her community a better place.

        No downside.

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        • Obviously Staged Fuckery

          This. My mom was a pregnant teenage runaway with a drug habit and hippie mentality. When I was in high school her job was working with "troubled youth" so I knew there wasn't much she couldn't handle. So I dressed conservatively and joined the Young Republicans.

          It totally worked.

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          • Mumspringa Glen

            This is hilarious! Thanks for the giggle.

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          • Obviously Staged Fuckery

            I'm clearly drunk cos I read your comment and was like huh I don't remember writing this...
            Oh well more wine and I won't remember writing anything!

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          • Wait... What?

            OMG. Getting side eye on the bus from a genuine lol!

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      • FallenSisterWitch

        At my house, that's a terse and smarty-pants "FINE" anytime I need a response if the teen child is aggravated. FINE. You're totally right.

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        • feigning pensive thought

          I get an "o-KAAAAY." And he's still only ten.

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          • FallenSisterWitch

            I have one of those, too!

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          • i love chili dogs

            I discovered as a teen that answering my mother with an "aiiiiight" a la Ali G makes her nuts.

            ...I'm almost 30 and I still do it.

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      • RandomDancing

        Well, the button that MKYG would push to make her parents go absolutely crazy would be to pursue a career in higher education after getting a scholarship to Harvard and interning at a Fortune 500 company, so rebelling might work out for her.

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        • Tessa Sackville

          What does MKYG mean?

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          • boombalatty

            My Kid You Guys. She often refers to her child this way and it's been picked up here as a way to a) mock Cecily's irritating writing style, and b) not use the kid's actual name and leave her a bit of privacy.

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      • crispenclean

        We can only hope that if Cess's daughter would like to rebel against her mother being ok with the sexualized tween look then this means she'll be dressing like Mother Theresa for Halloween.

        Mama Cess seems to be way too comfortable with the hoochie skirt on a 10-year-old idea. Another sign of narcissism: Better Living Through Vicarious Dressing.

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  5. NicD

    Well shocking. Girls want to be cute and start to want attention from boys. I don't argue that some degree of that is natural and normal however, and this is important, we don't live in the time of Romeo and Juliette (also? READ THE PLAY. They were written as fickle, dramatic air heads and SPOILER they ended up dead) and things like cultural relevance and appropriateness apply.

    And the reason we don't all get up in arms about "sexy" boy costumes is they don't exist. I've yet to se a preteen Magic Mike. Thank God.

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    • Vainglorious Poop Weasel

      Someone's upset about there not being a preteen Magic Mike costume.

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      • clitasaurus hex

        If adult male costumes are any indication, a preteen Magic Mike costume would leave the wearer completely covered in a long-sleeved shirt with muscle padding and silk shorts with leggings underneath. Skin showing on Halloween is reserved for gay men and conventionally attractive women.

        Exhibit A:

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    • Curate Our Kitchenware

      Girls with strong male role models in their life, like a dad, won't want sexual attention from boys at a young age. The fact that Cess assumes her 10 or 11 year old daughter will be sexualizing herself speaks volumes.

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      • trashbreakfast

        That's sort of presumptuous, no?

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        • Delusions of Adequacy

          Yeah. I didn't have any strong male role models in my life and I never wanted sexual attention from boys at a young age.

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      • plan b

        I don't have "daddy issues" but I've been oversexed and boy crazy pretty much forever, so I reject your theory.

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      • clitasaurus hex

        Kim Davis in here telling us that parenting should be between a woman and a strong man.

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      • Ladycoder Tantrums

        You guys can knock this comment all you want, but the research is pretty clear...girls with involved fathers are much less likely to have trouble in this area than girls with no fathers or couchbarnacle fathers. Can't hate on the science, yo...

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        • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

          [citations necessary]

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          • Vandalise the Skull

            I call BS on this. My kitten is 13, tall, gorgeous, great figure and popular. She has no interest in boys yet, but she's very fashion conscious and likes to spend time making her space beautiful and she has an innate class to how she presents herself.
            Her father and I split when she was 2, he's a total dick and useless father but she sees him every other weekend. My huscat came into our lives when she was 6 and he doesn't currently live with us, but he visits often. He's a great role model, but I don't know that he'd qualify for your description of "involved father" given that she may not see him for days on end. He loves her and is good to her, and is more of a dad than her bio father though.

            Meanwhile, my friends are a nuclear family and Dad is home every night doing activities with both the now 13 year old daughter and the older brother. The girl has been sexually active since she was newly 12 and her parents encourage boyfriends (there have been many) to sleep over. She skips school if the boyfriend (who is four years older) is suspended, and she slaps on tonnes of makeup. She dresses like a streetwalker.

            I believe parenting has an impact, but I don't think the strong male role model holds true.

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            • Take this meatloaf so I can go pee in the shower

              This is a great example of thinking anecdotes somehow disprove averages. Also, your daughter is 13, so who knows what she may get into. It's not like sex at 14, 15, 16, etc. is SOOO much better than at 12. It's still pretty awful to have young girls with no clue putting themselves at risk for lifelong diseases (herpes), fatal diseases (AIDS), and a pregnancy they'll have to handle one way or the other. Maybe a bit early to assume there's been no damage in this area when you're discussing a 13-year-old. And the 12-year-old you cite is being actively f*d up by her idiot parents, so no, it wouldn't help to have two of them involved. Most parents do *not* encourage their children to have sex at 12.

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          • emotional tampon

            Updegraff, K. A., McHale, S. M., Crouter, A. C., & Kupanoff, K. (2001, Aug.). Parents’ involvement in adolescents’ peer relationships: A comparison of mothers’ and father’s roles. Journal of Marriage and Family 63(3), 655-668.

            M. Kathrine Hutchinson. 2004. The Influence of Sexual Risk Communication Between Parents and Daughters on Sexual Risk Behaviors. Family Relations 51(3): 238-47.

            Nielsen, L. (2007, March 1). College daughters’ relationships with their fathers: A 15 year study. College Student Journal, 41(1), 112-121.

            Bruce J. Ellis, John E. Bates, Kenneth A. Dodge, David M. Fergusson, L. John Horwood, Gregory S. Pettit and Lianne Woodward .Does Father Absence Place Daughters at Special Risk for Early Sexual Activity and Teenage Pregnancy? Child Development 74(3):801-821

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            • ComplimentaryAngle

              These papers are dramatically out of date. The influence of social media, unlimited access to information via the internet, the impacts of sites like Vine, Snapchst, KIK, IG, FB, etc. the availibity of corn, tuition costs, changes in the distribution of occupations women pursue... all of these factors should really be considered as either test parameters, controlled variables, or proxies for other assumptions or deductions.

              Sorry but, Science...

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              • Acrazing Grace

                "Dramatically out of date" seems like an overstatement.

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              • ComplimentaryAngle

                Ha really? Did you look at any of the papers? The Nielsen paper polled only 423 female students at Wakeforest from 1990-2004. Ha one of the supporting facts references mother-daughter and father-son relationships used in textbooks published in1993 and 1997.

                The last paper assumes the definition of early sex as 16 or earlier based on a study in 2000. The dataset is 584 families in TN and ID, less than half of which had daughters and polled them in the early 2000s.

                A 15 year old benchmark for average age of sex based on a small sample size survey that's close to 20 years old (from the paper it cited) seems dramatically out of date.

                I'm not saying you throw away studies as they age. I'm just saying that the susceptibility for those statistics to expire in relevance is high because of the topic and that statistics representative of a modern age should be considered if you want to pursue the whole "the statistics proof I'm right" course. These statistics proved the argument right before the girl was born.

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        • selfie abuse

          The only "science" in this area is that such girls will menstruate earlier, NOT that they will act on it or start to have sex earlier so, f*** off with your bullshit.

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          • selfie abuse

            For those "noping" me without any reply, this is easily googled. It is not without controversy but it started getting press with a University of Berkley study and has been confirmed in others before and since then. A lot of very anti-feminist bs has resulted from such studies, however, I view it from the strictly biological/reproductive point of view.


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      • emotional tampon

        Exactly. And for all the hams above who are saying, "But I don't have this problem!" are confusing anecdote with data. Of course there are exceptions, but that doesn't disprove the rule.

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    • GrumpyMcPants

      Yeah, no. The men and women I know who have what you call "daddy issues" (how insulting of a term) actually behave more cautiously with romantic partners and relationships.

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      • Take this meatloaf so I can go pee in the shower

        Again, statistically, not so for the masses. See the citations a few up.

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        • ComplimentaryAngle

          Can you provide the names of the peer reviewed publications that provide statistics that include the last decade? Post 2010 at a minimum obviously.

          I don't even disagree with you - just want to understand the credibility of the sources being used to support this.

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          • emotional tampon


            It is 2015. It takes years to get social science like this published. There may well be some survey data out there that fits your criteria, but it won't be published for several more years.

            I have a paper under review that involves original survey data I collected 2011-2013. I will probably get an R&R on it in a few months. Then I'll have a few MORE months to revise and resubmit. Then a few MORE months while it gets sent out to 3-5 reviewers. Then, if it is ultimately accepted, it will be scheduled for publication in a year or so. If I'm lucky, that paper will get published in 2018. By which time, it will be "dramatically out of date" by your standards.

            I agree, it sucks that we can't get nationally representative survey data collected, analyzed, and published with the snap of the finger. But look at any of the big splashy social science that's made the front page in the last few years. If you dig iinto the original research articles, the data is usually at least 10 years old.

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            • ComplimentaryAngle

              A 2018 publication based on 2011 survey data used to discuss a 2015 event doesn't seem dramatically out of date at all. That's less than a ten year span- and all within a post-Internet era. The papers cited above use survey results from 25 years ago. I mean is this really an argument? Haha there wasnt an Internet when some of those daughters were being asked how often they communicate with their dads, but we should use those survey results to measure the impact of fathers in the lives of teens today? Hahaha hahaha I guess that whole Internet thing that changed the way people would communicate forever isn't as dramatic as I thought...

              I know how long it takes to get things published. And I'm aware that this topic will have a shorter shelf life, relatively.

              But let's not use limited and out of date statistics to tell people why "they are wrong because, science" when there isn't any strong data that is fit for purpose that can be called upon.

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            • Babs

              This is why social "science" research is pretty much bullshit IMHO, the "data" is mostly surveys from college kids and it takes forever to get published to boot. It's all entirely subjective too, which makes it non scientific.

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  6. Ceraminals

    So she's not my favorite person and that alone is worth her getting the drama she brings on herself, however... It is normal for girls to start puberty as early as 9, and with that comes "sexy" feelings.

    So good for her. It could be worse, she could be ultra conservative and completely ignore what pre and pubescent girls go through.

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    • Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

      Correct. But nine-year-olds do not have the mental wherewithal to deal with the very real consequences of looking sexy.

      Sexy feelings does not mean you are prepared for sex or even sexual attention. I recieved sexual attention at that age and let me tell you, it really messes with your head. You go from innocently doing whatever and thinking maybe a kiss from a prince would be thrilling to having your friend's stepdads honk at your boobs. You literally do not have the life experience to process that. Or say no, because you're a kid, and adults have always known best.

      So no, not good for her, never good for her. She is actively molding her child into having no bodily autonomy and self esteem beyond her looks, which is just peachy for the predator or rapist that picks up on it.

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      • isbutteracarb

        Exactly. She thinks she is promoting independence and giving her daughter the tools to have autonomy over her body- but , in reality she is doing just the opposite. She is letting her NINE YEAR OLD buy into the cultural narrative that women's bodies are for male consumption, reinforcing the idea that her daughter's self worth is tied to her sexiness. Not good for her. There are ways to understand and embrace the changes that come with being a tween, but then there are ways to exploit them. She chose the latter.

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        • User name writer's block

          Letting your 9 year old wear a sexy halloween costume endorses her self-objectification, it tells her that she exists to be an object of someone's desire. that her self worth is tied up in how she looks, not who she is. Self-objectification is harmful emotionally, physically, mentally, and cognitively and there's plenty of research to prove this, even though the literary reference from 400 years ago is pretty compelling evidence in Cecily's favor. In light of Cecily's infamous milk shake blog post, it's clear that despite all the feminist claims, Cecily ties her own self worth to how well she can please a man and she's setting her daughter down that path as well.

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          • Mumspringa Glen

            It's why that scene in "Mean Girls" where the 'cool mom' is letting her young daughter watch and mimic 'Girls Gone Wild' and copy sexy dance moves is funny!

            Or when the dad is crying when that same mom is photographing Regina George in her lingerie Halloween costume.

            It's like Cecily watched that movie and was all, 'Yup, that cool mom is where it's AT, yo. Sign me up, except I want a black velour pant suit.'

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          • Helen Van Patterson Patton

            I love that she justifies her nonsense ideas with how people did things 400 years ago. Like seriously? We've come a long way, baby, from the days of short life expectancy, child labor, thinking the earth was flat, and so on.

            Perhaps she'd like to spread her antiquated ideas via the Gutenberg printing press?

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            • shank

              She's also not great at history. The people getting married at 12 or 13 were by and large wealthy, and that's because it was an alliance with the intention of producing lots of potential heirs in a time of high infant mortality. The poor were getting married in their late teens (or early 20s, especially if there were readily available jobs, eg. post Black Death).

              So yeah, her historical evidence is questionable. Yes, the concept of adolescence is a relatively new phenomenon, but considering someone an adult and marrying them off are two different things that didn't always correspond.

              /dull history lesson

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              • Cersei Lannister’s Stylish Pixie Cut

                exactly. and even in royal/aristocratic marriages, it was really normal for the couple to live completely separately and not consummate the marriage SPECIFICALLY because people AT THAT TIME already knew that pregnancies for very young women were dangerous--and that very young people of either gender were not really adults yet, even though the concept of "teenagers" didn't exist at the time.

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              • seshat

                Reading this made me recall the exchange from Romeo and Juliet (Act 1, Scene 2) where Juliet's father is arguing with a suitor that his daughter is too young to be a bride. "Younger than she are happy mothers made." Says Paris, to which Capulet replies "And too soon marred are those so early made". That this was acknowledged in Shakespeare's time but eludes Cecily in 2015 is astonishing.

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            • Take this meatloaf so I can go pee in the shower

              Oooh, get off my internets and get on my Gutenberg printing press! Have at it! Print away, all day!

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      • unikorn woo

        This X 1000

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      • Donna Freedman

        I'm so sorry that happened to you.

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    • Generic Username

      This. My body-shaming mother couldn't deal with me going through puberty, so she pretty much demanded I wear nothing but baggy turtlenecks and sweatshirts. She even instituted something called "The Daddy Test" that was meant to make me feel ashamed when I wore things that made me look attractive or feminine. Twenty years later, I still deal with shame and body/clothing issues. Screw that.

      Encouraging her daughter to dress in revealing clothing would be stupid and creepy. But not freaking out when her daughter chooses her own clothing, even when those clothes draw attention to her femininity? Sounds good to me.

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      • Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

        I am sorry you had to deal with body shaming, especially from parents. That's particularly cruel.

        However, my parents didn't bat an eye at my clothing choices, even when it was inappropriate. I wish they had. I got myself into situations way over my head because I looked much older than I was and didn't have the experience or skill set to realize it was wrong until it was too late. Drawing attention to femininity is one thing at age 9, drawing attention to sexuality, when the kid in question likely has no idea what that means, is another.

        There is a balance between turtlenecks and crop tops, and her hamfisted and dangerous article does not address that in any way.

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        • Amaryllis

          Yeah, my parents did the same thing. There's a huge difference between allowing a kid to have green hair and wear black lipstick and allowing 13 year old me to leave the house in a Catholic Schoolgirl skirt that barely covered my ass and a crop top. 13 year old me did not know how to deal with the attention that evoked.

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      • Ceraminals

        Yeah see thats what I'm talking about.

        I chose this crazy revealing genie outfit, think jasmine when I was around that age (12 maybe?) . My parents didn't stop me although I know they must've been horrified lol. I went trick or treating at night in 50 degree weather, that alone should've been enough to be like, No Ceraminals. But they didn't.

        Anecdotally, my parents let me wear whatever I wanted, and I never was in over my head or had any "attention" issues. They were more on the conservative side, but we had a good relationship.

        Side note that will probably get me more nopes, but tis the day. The whole "she shouldn't wear that, she'll get sexually assaulted or draw the wrong kind of attention!" is gross and I'm surprised everyone is leaning that way, regardless of age.

        THIS! (21)NOPE! (61)

        • Pumpkin Spice Scented Feminine Products

          It's gross to tell your kids that wearing certain kinds of clothes can attract a kind of attention they may not want? That's reality and pretending it isn't doesn't do anyone any favors. Making your kids believe that they're special snowflakes who can dress and look however they want without any kind of fallout does them a disservice.

          All that aside, she's talking about her NINE YEAR OLD here. She's a child and what's gross is prematurely sexualizing her. This article is garbage clickbait and Cecily knows it. She is disgusting.

          THIS! (82)NOPE! (2)

          • Pumpkin Spice Scented Feminine Products

            Just to be clear, I am absolutely NOT saying that anyone deserves or is "asking" for assault or abuse by dressing a certain way. The way someone is dressed does not give anyone a right to anyone else's body, ever. Period, end of story.

            I do think it's perfectly reasonable to help adolescents understand that a lot of people are going to judge them and draw certain conclusions about them based on elements of how they *choose* to appear. I'm not saying this is right or that I like it, but it's just...reality.

            All of this is a red herring, though, because Cecily is talking about her elementary-aged child dressing sexy. And that's disgusting and awful, no matter how she tries to repackage it into some progressive, cool mom attitude.

            THIS! (62)NOPE! (2)

        • Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

          I mean... she will draw the wrong kind of attention if she is a preteen dressing like a grown woman.

          I am 100% pro dressing how you want and I am in no way saying that if you dress a certain way you are asking for bad things to happen to you. What I AM saying is that children dressing in a certain way that makes them look older and then they get sexual attention from adults or older kids is totally f***ed up and will, inevitably, f*** the kid up in regards to her own self worth. It is one thing for a 16-year-old to flaunt her sexuality because in many states she is in the age of majority and can legally *have* a sexuality. She is also more mature and aware of her own desires. But a 9-year-old? Has no idea what sex really entails and probably thinks it's two people rolling around in sheets trying to eat each other's faces.

          This is not to say we shouldn't work, and work hard, to stop creepers from creeping on children. That is not what anyone is saying. What most people are trying to say is that 1) Cess is making it EASIER for people to prey on her daughter by allowing her to self-exploit and dress in a provacative manner at the ripe ole age of NINE.

          THIS! (40)NOPE! (0)

          • Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

            What I am screaming in the wilderness is that I was objectified at MKYG's age just wearing normal clothes and it set me on a spiral that did end up with repeated sexual assaults and a lifetime of self esteem issues. So I imagine it would have been even worse had I worn a "sexy" Halloween costume.

            There is a difference between full coverage and letting it all hang out. And there is a difference between a preteen and a teenager's dress.

            THIS! (19)NOPE! (1)

            • times 10 to the monkey nine

              Cecily doesn't have a pubescent or even pre-teen - at 9, her daughter it literally STIIL A CHILD, whether she has her period or not.

              She noted in her article that "when" her kid, you guise, wants to start dressing sexy at "10 or 11", she'll have no problem with this. She has no idea how she'll feel when she actually sees her daughter made up & showing off curves she likely won't even have yet.

              As a side note, why does one have to show a ton of skin to "feel sexy". I used to have a pair of black platform mary-jane shoes that made me feel sexy AF when I'd wear them. Sexy doesn't necessarily mean "wearing nothing other than what's required by law" and it would be wise to teach her daughter that.

              THIS! (17)NOPE! (2)

      • "Run like hell" territory

        There is a fine line here, and I see both sides. I dress conservatively, and always dressed my kids conservatively. Then my now 18 year old started going through puberty and had huge boobs (still does) and all her shirts were low cut. I feel like I spent her teen years pulling her shirt up, while she kept pulling it down LOL. At some point I just gave up. I couldn't tell her to be proud of her body and then demand she cover it up. I figured life would teach her soon enough that dressing certain ways will get you unwanted attention. Thankfully we live in Seattle now where a)it's cold (she likes scarfs now hahahaha) and b)feminists and liberal ideas about women are the norm and c)you can fly your freak flag and no one will care.
        That being said, I still have 2 more daughters I try and keep modest. On the one hand it's sad that we feel the need to keep our daughters modest so as to not attract unwanted male attention. On the other hand, that's culture for you. Kids have to discover their own comfort zone as far as revealing vs. not revealing,, but surely at 9 they should have some guidance from parents.

        THIS! (26)NOPE! (7)

        • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

          Modesty" doesn't protect girls and women, I'm afraid. A big part of rape culture is the message that girls or women who are victimised somehow brought it on themselves because of what they wore, but it's crap.

          The belief system of "X hasn't happened to me because I did Y" helps you to feel safer, it let's you feel like you're in control. It's known as the 'just world' fallacy. Sadly, reality doesn't work that way.

          The vast majority of sexual offences are perpetrated by family, partners, friends and acquaintances. The majority happens in a home setting. The whole "masked stranger grabbing girls in an alley" scenario is vanishingly rare compared to children being sexually assaulted by parents or caregivers, or people being raped by their significant other.

          Another nail in the coffin of "modest clothing prevents rape" is the fact that women and girls in restricted religious groups are in no less danger. Hassidic and Haredi Jews start to cover little girls from neck to toes at three years old. Many start from birth, but three is the absolute cut- off point due to a particular law. Women cover their heads after marriage. There are certain extreme groups where women and girls wear full covering is practiced, and a garment like a burqa is worn.

          In many Islamic denominations girls wear hijab after menarche, some groups insist on hijab once girls start school. There are women who wear niqabs and abayas, they are totally covered. Some fundamental patriarchal Christian sects (Quiverful for example) and breakaway Mormon groups like the FLDS insist on modest clothing for girls and women too.

          Every group I've mentioned above also practice strict separation of the sexes, with rules about everything from changing nappies to when a husband and wife may sit on the same sofa together. Guess what? Those religious groups have sexual predation rates that would make a catholic priest blush. Can you guess why? Because when all the emphasis is placed on women and girls covering up so that their dirty, sinful bodies don't corrupt men and boys, when girls are taught that men are helpless to resist the sexual urges that they allegedly cause, rape isn't a bug in the system - It's a feature.

          Boys and men in those groups know that they'll face no recriminations because their victim will be blamed for "causing them to stray". Abused and raped girls and women are then held up as an example of what not to do , and as "proof" that female bodies are basically sin incarnate, and that the poor menz must be protected by oppressing women, and on it goes. Eve was weak, and all that.

          If you and your daughters haven't been raped, then it's because you haven't crossed paths with a rapist. Your clothes have bugger all to do with it.

          Sorry this got so long, but unpacking this toxic shit ain't quick and easy

          THIS! (68)NOPE! (11)

          • feralpussy

            I've crossed paths with a rapist three times when I was in my late teens, and it wouldn't have mattered one bit what I was wearing.

            They were 100% crimes of opportunity.

            Two were date rape incidents, and one happened when I was at a bar, with a bunch of friends, and this asshole pushed me down the stairs and assaulted me.

            I always get nervous when discussions about rape and rape culture revolve around whether clothing is a contributing factor. Instead, we should be discussing situational awareness.

            I am equally against the idea of the false confidence peddled as "women's self defence", because as a former competitive boxer, even I know that I would stand very little chance against a 6'0 250 lb rapist on a mission. What does help is a discussion of what situations can put you at risk, and how to avoid them. Will that stop every rapist? Absolutely not - especially in a child/predator scenario. But addressing rape as a crime of opportunity should be a regular part of our dialogue on this topic.

            THIS! (24)NOPE! (1)

            • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

              Ah but the headline "Shitloads of women are raped by their SO" doesn't make money, and it doesn't fit with the "filthy s**ts in miniskirts who deserve it" trope that gets the regressive all juiced up.

              I wish people would open their eyes and see that your story echoes the actual majority of cases. I'm so sorry you were repeatedly victimised.

              If I could hammer one thing into peoples' heads it would be this- sexual predation risk depends on three things. Proximity, access, and power. Just as you said.

              Parents are always worrying about "creepy Carl" who hangs around at the park, while never thinking twice about family and friends, or that new priest at St Mary's, the new teacher at Hebrew school, or the football coach.

              I get why people want to believw that modest dress and beng teetotal can afford them some control or power, but until the message switches from "Girls, keep yourself covered and don't go out at night/drink/flirt" to "Hey rapists - don't rape!".

              Having to play Schrödinger's Rapist is exhausting, but why implement change through education and empowerment, when yelling ,"Stop being so s**tty you stupid s**ts".

              Big squatch hugs, I hope you're in a better place now

              THIS! (14)NOPE! (4)

            • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

              Shit. I wrote you a really long reply but my 'low battery' alert came a microsecond before the f***ing pad shut down.

              The gist of it is, it doesn't matter what anyone does/doesn't do, drinks/doesn't drink, what they wear, drink, or where they go. All that's needed for sexual predation to occur is a predator and a victim.

              The only way to avoid risk completely iis to brick yourself up. I was sexually assaulted on a residential street on a housing estate, in broad daylight, by a gang. Of my friends who've been assaulted or raped, none have fallen prey to the strange man in the bar. Churches, schools and workplaces, and always by people they knew and trusted.

              We waste so much time and money demonising female sexuality, policing the behaviour of girls and women, and blaming victims and survivors. It doesn't work. It doesn't stop women and girls being victimised, and completely ignored male victims.

              We've got to tear this shit up and start again. Don't tell people "Don't do this or you'll get raped!", focus on sending out the message "DON'T f***ING RAPE PEOPLE!" Make the justice system actually punish sex crimes. Here in the UK rape might as well be legal. Of the tiny number of reported rapes only about 6% result in any legal action. Of that 6% only 6% face a custodial sentence. Judges are very fond of telling victims that they are to blame for rape. Children have been blamed for "leading on" the paedophiles who abused them, or even told that they initiated their own rape.

              The whole system, as well as society's attitude, needs to be burned down and the earth salted.

              THIS! (21)NOPE! (1)

              • limblessa

                Agree 100%. The message should never be "Wear this, don't wear that, drink this, don't drink that." It should ALWAYS be exactly what you said Do Not Rape People.

                Spot on Sasquatch.

                THIS! (10)NOPE! (1)

              • Cabal of Harpies

                Spot ON. I work at a university, and recently was part of a freshman orientation course where had our campus police come talk to the class (in conjunction with a bystander intervention discussion). The police were, finally, telling the right message: No means No. When someone has a drink or does drugs, No means No and Yes means No. If the chemistry exists between two people, it will exist during the daylight, with proper consent, without outside influence; wait for that time. I was happy to hear that message, I think it's a start.

                THIS! (10)NOPE! (0)

    • Blissful Ignorance

      Yes and no.

      Sexuality begins to develop around this age and girls will (and need to) start to recognise their body as a somewhat sexual thing, with all the power and vulnerability that comes with it.

      However, a young girls developing sexuality is her own private thing, not something to be presented to the world for attention and praise. Or for their mothers to write articles about. Girls need to develop their own true sexual self, not adopt a sexual identity thrust on them by adult sexual culture. They need to learn what they like and don't like, how much and what type of attention they enjoy, the reaction and interactions that are important to them, etc etc. The last thing you want is a young girl being coerced into assuming a sexual identity that is based on adult male fantasies because she presumes that's the norm and hasn't considered any other possibility.

      THIS! (41)NOPE! (0)

  7. Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

    When I wore a non-hootchie Zorro (ZORRO) costume as a tween, it didn't stop my friend's creepy stepdad for commenting that I looked "hot."

    No really.

    Not Halloween-related, I started dressing more provacatively after my sexual assault because I lost the ability to claim my body as my own. It belonged to other people. So someone ENCOURAGING this behavior is appalling. It's just teaching her kid that her body is not hers, it's others', and completely grooming her for a predator. This is sick.

    THIS! (78)NOPE! (1)

    • Amaryllis

      I'm sorry you went through that and I hope your body is yours again.

      THIS! (37)NOPE! (0)

      • Aunt Cornelia, rogue saboteur copy editor

        Thank you. I am not trotting out my sob story for the headpats; this stuff just makes me so goddamn angry.

        I do not blame my parents, but if they had a tighter rein on me I wouldn't have gone through some of the stuff I did. So to watch a parent go totally reins-off and push it on her child is beyond the pale.

        THIS! (42)NOPE! (1)

        • Amaryllis

          I totally could have been saved a lot of self-created trouble if my NPD father and Professional Martyr mother would have said no to 13-16 year old me. Even once.

          THIS! (26)NOPE! (2)

          • ativan annie

            I don't mom tried her very best to corral me at that age, and all I did was do everything behind her back. Changing clothes the minute I got out of the house, putting on more make-up at school, even made a rope out of bed sheets and climbed out my bedroom window once when she wouldn't let me go to the roller rink. I still remember the sound of her screaming after me as I ran off through the woods. My poor mom. Not sure what else she could have done.

            Not that this has anything to do with Cecily, I guess. She'd probably be the one tying the damn sheets together for Tori.

            Just seems to me that many kids are going to do what they want, no matter how hard their parents try to control them.

            THIS! (16)NOPE! (17)

            • times 10 to the monkey nine

              True, many kids will rebel & push/ignore the boundaries parents try to place on them for various reasons.

              However, if kids are given NO boundaries, they often feel 'lost' & that their parents aren't interested in their safety & protecting them, even from themselves.

              I mean, even if you say 'f*** you, mom!!' when she tries to enforce them on you, the fact that she is trying to show them to you at least gives you an idea where the lines likely are to the majority of society. Kind of like you have to know what the rules are before you can break them.

              THIS! (8)NOPE! (0)

              • Amaryllis

                This. I might not have listened, but the knowledge that they cared enough to say something, to at least try, would have changed things.

                Trust me, it's not fun having parents that just entirely give up on parenting. You feel adrift, unloved, and frightened. You throw yourself into the abyss doing increasingly idiotic things trying to get them to do ANY.THING. about it, and when they don't, you die inside.

                I'm sure MKYG is an obnoxious little brat by this point, but she's in pain, too.

                THIS! (9)NOPE! (1)

  8. We Ate Just Cake Like Peasants

    Can I just NOPE Cecily's existence?

    THIS! (178)NOPE! (1)

    • Malingering Bint

      I think she's already done that herself.

      THIS! (27)NOPE! (1)

      • We Ate Just Cake Like Peasants

        She's still there today, damn it. I believed you!

        THIS! (3)NOPE! (0)

  9. Suzy Bishop-Shakusky

    Just when you think the bar can't be any lower....

    Add the fact her daughter goes to a school with very little adult supervision and older children with behavioral issues.

    Screw you, cesspool!

    I wish her daughter had one REAL adult in her life.

    THIS! (62)NOPE! (0)

    • phone

      And then there's the question of whether the Phree Skool checks the background of staff like normal schools at least try to do.

      THIS! (19)NOPE! (0)

      • Sloth Snuggling Sasquatch

        Oh god I hadn't even thought about that.

        I wish GOMI could rescue that poor kid.

        THIS! (3)NOPE! (1)

      • Jan74

        Staff is the least of their worries. There are kids of up to 19, with almost no adult supervision at all, with access to all the younger kids at the Skulag. Basically, it is worse than an orphanage situation, and we know how often there is kid-on-kid abuse in orphanages...

        THIS! (3)NOPE! (0)

  10. PeePie

    This is how she earns her Cesspool nickname

    THIS! (36)NOPE! (0)

  11. Obviously Staged Fuckery

    Sorry is it just me but at 9 years old neither myself nor any of my female friends at the time were even remotely interested in being sexy. At all. Maybe it was just my group of friends or whatever but we were more interested in going rollerblading round to the park and doing kiddy kinda stuff. I don't think I became aware or interested in the concept of "sexy" until at least 13 when I went to high school. Was I just so sheltered?! This is creepy. It gives me the heebiest of jeebies.

    THIS! (61)NOPE! (1)

    • clitasaurus hex

      Overtly sexual behavior in young children, pubescent or not, is a very bad sign and not one to just let take its course.

      Body shaming, s**t shaming are important topics to breach with pre-teens because young girls get a lot of conflicting messages about what they should wear and why. Cecily just goes at it with the aplomb of an East-coaster at the In-N-Out drive-thru.

      THIS! (35)NOPE! (0)

      • Ladycoder Tantrums

        I teach 3rd grade, and overtly sexual behavior in children is almost ALWAYS the result of inappropriate behavior (molestation) or precocious puberty. It's an aberration, not a normal state of being for a child of 8 or 9.

        THIS! (37)NOPE! (1)

    • Get the Most Outta Ya Womb While Ya Can!

      All the boyfriend/girlfriend stuff started for us right around 10, but it wasn't sexual in nature (people would "date" which included nothing more than saying you were "dating" and maybe saying hi on the playground a little more frequently). Middle school (11-13) was when people started caring more about being attractive, but even then I feel like we were doing it as much for our own friends as for boys (and it had as much to do with glitter and butterfly hairclips as it did with being sexy). High school was really when I felt like girls started wanting to dress to impress guys.

      I understand the idea of not wanting to deny your child from discovering themselves/their sexuality, but that needs boundaries. She needs to teach her daughter to respect herself by not getting decked out in a s**tty costume when she's a "tween"/young teenager.

      THIS! (27)NOPE! (0)

    • Donna Freedman

      My best friend and I were a lot more interested in watching cartoons, riding our bikes and playing with her pets. Boys? Eeewww.

      And I was also an early bloomer who didn't understand why Mom frowned on short shorts and halters. My sisters and I figured she just wanted us to look like babies. After all, the other girls in junior high dressed that way.

      We considered it fashion but as others in this thread have pointed out, we had no idea what to do with the (often sketchy) attention that skimpy clothing engendered. Now I understand what my mom was trying to do: protect us from creepers.

      THIS! (16)NOPE! (0)

      • Jar

        My daughter is around the same age as Cecily's. (Few months younger.) Do you know what her and her friends talk about? Minecraft, Shopkins, and the favorite you tubers or animals. I have never heard them talk about boys or wanting to dress to impress them. They wear things THEY like (which is why my daughter has nearly an entire wardrobe of foxes and minions.) This article was disgusting click bait and Cesspool should be ashamed for trying to say outward sexual behavior is normal for a 9 year old.

        THIS! (35)NOPE! (0)

        • Busted Coccyx Club


          Shopkins are all my daughter talks sbout. She's had a couple of good friends who were boys, and she said she liked them or they liked her, but that lasted all of a day.

          You know who she wants to be for Halloween? Unikitty, not s**tty Red Riding Hood.

          THIS! (9)NOPE! (0)

        • CauliflowerApologist

          My daughter is roughly the same age, a bit younger. She is fairly socially precocious and will often make her Littlest Pet Shop Characters 'fight' over each other's boyfriends or girlfriends, or kiss or whatever, but she isn't remotely relating this to her own life. It's a kind of adult social behavior she semi-understands and likes to play with, but she doesn't draw any relationship between that and her own life yet.

          THIS! (3)NOPE! (0)

  12. SadPandaShirt: Public Figure

    Troll for clicks much, Cec?

    I'm very surprised that such a fierce feminist is OK with s**tty Halloween costumes. Cecily is such a walking contradiction.

    So glad Tori is being encouraged to explore her sexuality. I hope she also knows there's a big difference between solo exploration under the blanket and openly displaying that sexuality and subsequently acting or being pressured to act on it.

    Way to turn your kid out, you idiot.


    THIS! (50)NOPE! (1)

  13. unikorn woo

    Mother of God. I haven't looked in on old Cess in quite some time, and now I remember why.
    Who refers to their nine year old as sexy?


    THIS! (37)NOPE! (0)

    • KERF probably would. Didn't she just use the word "sexy" to describe her toddler?

      THIS! (3)NOPE! (0)

    • SadPandaShirt: Public Figure

      Do you think she just wakes up in the morning and thinks "what really stupid thing can I write for attention today?"

      THIS! (6)NOPE! (0)

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